ecu mod ideas? looking to chip or piggy back a fueler

[chuckles309]

As far as I know the ecu can be modded to eliminate the timing retardation. Was wondering if anybody knows how to do the mod or if anybody knows of a part that will advance the curve. Kawi and suzuki retard the timing on their bikes.

Also, aside from the pciii and air and exhaust mods... what about injector nozzle mods or t.b. mods?

[billyritchie]

You could probably use the z1000 throttle bodies. I think some has used the zx10r tbs too. But not sure. As for retardation. I'm a bit retarded in that aspect.
I'm about to rebuild my zed with pod filters on the tbs instead of the big stupid restricting air box. You should maybe look into that too

[bjn]

You can get a timing advancer for cheap.
http://www.riderforums.com/showthread.php?67493-Ignition-Advance!&highlight=timing+advancer

ZX10 throttle bodies will be too big for the 750. You would loose all the low end due to slow air velocity at low RPM. The z1000 TB should work well. You would need to increase the fuel map for the extra air.

[chuckles309]

Nope... no pods for me brother. I would recommend a serious second thought on them pod filters if I were you. The airbox restriction has a purpose.

[billyritchie]

Hmmm, I've only heard good things about the pods, I'll give em a try and see, if they don't work, I'll switch back, cheers though

[chuckles309]

Ok think about it like this... if the bike was designed for unrestricted airflow, there would already be pods on there. You will have a noticeable drop in power where it really counts. Your top end will gain a little bit but how often do you ride full throttle? Your low end will lose power and your mid range will sputter.
In order to compensate for the unrestriced airflow you will have to completely reengineer your throttle bodies and engine control unit.
An example of the affect of restricted airflow as opposed to unrestricted is this...

Imagine you have a feather and you want to keep it floating in the air by blowing on it. If you purse your lips you will creat a stronger air stream... more pressure per square inch.

Now imagine trying to have the same effect on the feather but blowing with your mouth wide open... the same way one breathes on a window when trying to create a fog to write on... or when one wishes to clean off their glasses.
With your mouth wide open you are sacrificing pressure and control for volume.

The airbox is designed to create a higher pressure entrance into the tb. It helps control the air volume and also helps to balance the pressure in the intake with the barometric pressure outside.

Pods are less effective and a sacrifice not worth the gain for engines with cv carbs or efi. They do work for some things like 2 stroke engines or direct slide carburators.

I have been through all of the woes of pod filters on efi and cv carbs. The best alternative would be to use velocity stacks which would restrict airflow after air enters the pods but you have an uneven substitute for the airbox effect, at best.

If you are looking for performance, stay away from pods. If you don't want to take my word for it find someone who knows these engines... a racer would be ideal. Just make sure it is someone who will talk straight with you and not try to sell you on the idea of pods in hopes of you paying him or her to install them for you. A mechanic will tell you what you want to hear because they make money off of whatever it is they do for you.

So there is a no b.s. honest opinion from someone who knows what he is talking about from experience and knowledge of how the system works and the engineering behind the airbox.

Just always think... it took engineers who spent years learning the physics behind motion and matter even more years of design, trial and error, etc. to finally settle on the design of the airbox that would work best with the throttle bodies that would work best with that bore and stroke. When you change just one thing you are throwing out a keystone in the engineering that makes the whole system work together. So be prepared to spend a lot of time, money, and study in redesigning the rest of the system.

[billyritchie]

I already have the pods fitted to the throttle bodies. So when I rebuild the bike I'll try them out and see. As I said. Not heard complaints from the other guys with this mod. No big deal to refit the airbox if they don't work right, trial and error. C what works.

[bjn]

Chuckles, I am curious why you are asking about throttle body mods and/or swaps if you are so set on keeping the stock air box that is restrictive. There is more that goes into the design of an airbox than optimized flow. It is mainly there to keep air intake noise down.  The pod filters have worked on countless Z's and can be optimized with a simple addition of a pciii.


To clear up a couple of other things; the air box and throttle bodies are only pressurized if you have forced air induction, like a turbo or super charger. Naturally aspirated engines pull a vacuum in the intake.
Velocity stacks do not restrict flow. They increase air velocity.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venturi_tube#Venturi_tubes

[chuckles309]

Velosity stacks have no mechanical ability and create velocity by restricting the airflow.
The airbox serves little, if any purpose in noise reduction. Haha. Whatever dude. But if you want to rip out the airbox and put pods in your bike, go for it. They look cool so they must be a better option than the airbox.

[bjn]

I think you are confused with how a velocity stack works. The flow rate in a venturi is a constant. The cross sectional area of the vebturi is inversely proportional to the velocity if the air. Meaning that the velocity increases as the area decreases, while the volumetric flow remains the same. The only way one would restrict air flow is if you used an undersized stack, smaller than the throttle body. You are correct that if the intake is too open that you will have no low end power, but velocity stacks can be selected for your operating RPM range. Longer stacks are used for lower RPMs.


I would like to see some info about the air box having little to do with noise reduction. If you feel so passionately about the air box, why are you looking for ignition, exhaust, intake, injector mods? The box was designed for what came from the factory, not what came from the factory plus ignition advancer plus a bigger TB plus aftermarket exhaust. If simply modding the air box lid creates better throttle response with everything else stock, so I don't see how the box is optimized.


I do plan putting pods on, right after I finish installing my Z1000 pistons and cylinders, ported Z1000 head, zx9 cams and ZX10 throttle body

[chuckles309]

The air box is not designed with the purpose of noise reduction. Actually noise inside the airbox actually assists in air intake. But you can research that yourself.
On second thought... just do whatever you want to your bike. It's your bike. but I wonder why the rc51 or m1 on the race track still use the airbox. Or why ducati designed an entire bike around the airbox. I wonder why they aren't all just fitted with stacks and pods? Or better yet cold air intakes.
I think we have confusion. Of course. What I described with the feather is pretty much what restriction I am talking about. If you tighten the space the air is moving through but move the same volume of air... you know what, forget it. Like I said... its your bike, do what you want.

[billyritchie]

Not sure why your ranting so much about this. I've already said I'll try it and if it doesn't work I'll refit the air box. Oh and lots of googling tell people that the majority of air boxes on bikes are for noise reduction and the airbox Is designed to fit a space in the bike.
I think if your gomna rant anytime you don't agree with someone you won't gGet many posts. And if you know so much more than the rest of us why did you even post asking for advice